[organon]

Da și eu zic, ca schimbarea cafelei va rezolva problema.

[Paolo]

Hi Cradun..thankyou for your reply.
There are very few fines left in the cone even after grinding for a full week of espressos.

I want to be able to grind finer than the Honne will let me to get a finer (mousetail) pour with more flavours.
At its finest setting with Malabar and the Aurora it is more of a 'rats-tail'.

The shots are consistent from start to finish.

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Da și eu zic, ca schimbarea cafelei va rezolva problema.

Yes..it does (slightly). With other single origins, the ideal setting on my Honne is around zero with the Aurora.

[cradun]

Do you start with the bean compartment full of beans (the dose you are using) or do you gradually pour them using the 3d printed slider? Starting with a bean compartment filled with the dose you are using might increase the amount of fines which may offer a more adequate extraction (it may have some effect, even if marginal). Gradually feeding the beans to the burrs using a 3d printed slider was my way of making great V60s, due to the lower quantity of fines. In espresso, this practice can result in gushers. Hope this helps.

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I think that is actually a funnel, not a slider, just to use terms correctly

[eduard]

Do you start with the bean compartment full of beans (the dose you are using) or do you gradually pour them using the 3d printed slider? Starting with a bean compartment filled with the dose you are using might increase the amount of fines which may offer a more adequate extraction (it may have some effect, even if marginal). Gradually feeding the beans to the burrs using a 3d printed slider was my way of making great V60s, due to the lower quantity of fines. In espresso, this practice can result in gushers. Hope this helps.

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I think that is actually a funnel, not a slider, just to use terms correctly

Related to this, I made an experiment once. When I ground the coffee by turning 18gr at once into the funnel I had the Honne set on 4 (I'm talking about number not lines). When I gradually turned the coffee into the funnel (lets say several beans at once) I had to switch the setting to 2 in order to keep all the other extraction parameters unchanged. On this (mine at least) grinder, it is a huge difference between 4 and 2 setting.

[RaduCarutasu]

.
 
.....With the burrs now fully worn-in, when tightening the grind, the burrs will contact eachother around minus 0.6.
When I grind medium roasted Monsooned Malabar beans for the Brugnetti Aurora, I have to have the setting just above this (minus 0.5) and I would like to tighten it further. Both these beans and this espresso machine require a tighter grind than other beans and other machines. There is no finer adjustment to make.....

Have you tried a higher dose?

After describing the behavior of this coffee, it seems that roasting is lighter than average.

Light roast coffee is denser and heavier than medium roast, the thickness of the puck is smaller for the same dose, it has a lower solubility and faster erosion.

Raising the temperature also can help because a hotter extraction water will solubilize a larger amount of solubles, with an effect in slowing down the erosion of the coffee puck.

2-3 extra grams of coffee, or degrees (C/F) in water, can make the difference between a successful or a bad extraction and will encrease the complexity of the coffee shot taste.

[Paolo]

Thanks for your suggestions, Cradun, Eduard and RaduCaratasu.
I had another look at my Honne's settings and have realized that the burr rubbing point is NOT minus 0.6 (as I previously stated)...it is in fact just less than where zero would be if it was marked on the grinder's scale....which sounds just about where rubbing should be.

I have a few espresso machines and a few grinders. The Lagom, Helor Stance Motor and Monolith Conical all allow a much finer grind than I need. They can all choke any machine that I have if I am careless with the setting prior to grinding. It is only the Honne that is right at the edge of adjustment.

It wasn't always like this but has become so as the burrs have worn-in.
My routine hasn't changed. I use 20gm of medium-roasted beans and with the Honne, and add them once the motor is spinning....like I have done since last December.
I will try starting the motor after the beans are loaded and see if that makes a difference.

With my Vesuvius (and the settings that I have retained in it for the Malabar beans since the beginning of the year) I am no longer able to get a great shot using the exact routine that I have always used. It currently pours well but too fast for a fully-extracted shot.

The Honne grind has had to be tightened progressively since last December to get the desired rate of pour.
I have found this 'tightening-up' process has been necessary with every new grinder that I have used. It's just that there is nowhere left to go with the Honne in this application.

I am beginning to think that it is a burr issue and they may need to be replaced.

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    This is my finest grinding point. Any tighter and the burrs start to rub together.

[flipu2k]

Paolo, sounds like the exact same issue I'm having with mine. I have it for 2-3 years and during this time I had to tighten the grind setting by a very small amount up until this spring. In the course of a couple of months I had to go from about 3 to below 1 (similar to your picture), for the same dose and light-medium coffee (from the same roaster). Now I cannot pull a correct shot from less than 20g of beans.

I've spoken with Hedone and I'll send the grinder for a checkup, I'll update you when I know more.

[Paolo]

Paolo, sounds like the exact same issue I'm having with mine. I have it for 2-3 years and during this time I had to tighten the grind setting by a very small amount up until this spring. In the course of a couple of months I had to go from about 3 to below 1 (similar to your picture), for the same dose and light-medium coffee (from the same roaster). Now I cannot pull a correct shot from less than 20g of beans.

I've spoken with Hedone and I'll send the grinder for a checkup, I'll update you when I know more.

I am so glad that you have written here about your Honne...Sorry to hear about your grinder too but encouraged that I will be able to hear what the most likely problem with my grinder will be.

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I also wanted to ask if any Honne owners have replaced their machine's burrs with the 68mm SSP burrs that are now fitted in the M4 Versalab.

I am keen to find out if the SSP burrs actually do fit and if so, how well they work on medium roasted beans. I am keen to maintain the considerable mouthfeel that my Honne helps to generate.

[Mihai.B]

Am trimis Honne înapoi la fabrica Hedone din Craiova pentru un upgrade consistent. Rasnita mea avea deja 3 ani și era primul model, cel cu hoppere. Schimbările sunt destule : curea, fulie, ax melcat, pahar danturat, ax nou, cuțite, apărătoare curea.
Arata și se comporta puțin diferit acum. Am scăpat de retenția de la final prin mișcarea inversa a motorului după oprire. Reglajul este similar cu ce puteam face înainte, insa mult mai facil. Cred ca schimbarea cuțitelor face ca macinatura sa cada diferit. Vad mici cocoloașe de macinatura căzând în portafiltru. Poate pentru ca e macinatura foarte fina sau e atribut al cafelei pe care o am azi.
Una peste alta, Honne este o super rasnita pentru liga în care joaca. Experienta avuta cu echipa Hedone a fost una extrem de plăcută. Comunicarea a fost perfecta. Suportul la fel. O placere sa lucrezi cu ei și cu ocazia asta vreau sa le mulțumesc public.

[flipu2k]

Schimbările sunt destule : curea, fulie, ax melcat, pahar danturat, ax nou, cuțite, apărătoare curea.

Ai cerut tu schimbarile astea sau s-au oferit ei sa ti le faca? Aveai ceva probleme cu ea inainte sa o trimiti sau doar ai vrut un "refresh"?

Nu cred ca ar fi necesar sa schimbi cutitele dupa cativa ani de utilizare in regim casnic.

[Mihai.B]

O parte din schimbări le-am cerut specific eu(Ax melcat,pahar danturat, curea) restul schimbărilor a fost decizia celor de la Hedone. Cumva tot eu i-am rugat sa ia deciziile pentru ca îmi este destul de greu sa o trimit din Olanda.

[Paolo]

An update:-
Yesterday I removed the 'old' flat burrs which have ground approximately 20-30kg from new. They still look brand new.
With a dial test indicator, I checked all tolerances on my Honne given at points recommended for the Versalab here:-
https://www.versalab.com/BURRALIGNMENT.html
and everything seemed to me to be ok.
I cleaned out any remaining coffee grounds and installed some new (genuine) flat burrs.

My ideal grinding setting (for an Aurora/Malabar combination) has gone from '0' to '4'...so at the moment I have plenty of fine adjustment available. Coffees that I made yesterday and today with the Honne were beautiful!

I am at a bit of a loss as to the change back to normal. Were the burrs defective?

I have ordered a pair of SSP burrs that I will install if/when the new ones fail.

[Adriahno]

What type of SSP burrs did you ordered?

[Paolo]

I ordered the ones that fit into a Versalab/DRM Alinox. They will be coated with their Red Speed coating.

[Adriahno]

I'm curious if they fit the grinder. I think you would be the first to try them
Please keep us posted.

[cradun]

What genuine flat burrs did you install? Versalab burrs? Was there any way to check the allignment on the old burrs before you removed them so you could know if they were maybe out of allignment or that could not be the case since the burr carrier was in allignment in the points indicated in the video?

[Lyvyoo]

After an instagram post of Titus Grinder I have had a dialogue with Hansung from SSP about the compatibility with Versalab / Titus Grinder and Dragos Manciu from Hedone has confirmed for me that the dimensions provided by Hansung for Versalab / Titus are also similar for Honne but we must send the grinder to the service because it's hard to install and align the burrs.
The coating can be either DLC or Red Speed.

[Paolo]

Hi Adriahno. It will be a while before I fit the SSP burrs. I didn't really expect that fitting new burrs would bring the old grinder back to me.

Hi Cradun. The burrs that I fitted were spare ones that I ordered with my Honne.
To test if they were parallel to eachother, I used a feeler gauge inserted between the old burrs like in the Versalab guide.


The gaps were uniform in my grinder.

It was really straightforward installing the new flat burrs. These Youtube clips helped:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0FsxV0O6yo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_Cll5TY-4M

I will keep my fingers crossed that everything is now ok with my Honne!

[Lyvyoo]

Cred ca avem in sfarsit inel de dozare metalic pentru Honne
https://barshaker.ro/Barista-Space/Baris...ilver-58mm  
Are cineva informatii daca se potriveste? Pare identic Tidaka marimea L...

[Levo]

... Arata asemanator , insa mi se pare prea inalt si instabil ... adica PF , nu va sta bine fixat pe palnie fara a fi sustzinut cu mana.
Personal , folosesc cel mai subtzire inel de la Tidaka si se aseaza perfect , fara  a necesita sustzinere ... ... ptr. mine e cel mai bun.

[dandefiel]

Cred ca avem in sfarsit inel de dozare metalic pentru Honne
https://barshaker.ro/Barista-Space/Baris...ilver-58mm  
Are cineva informatii daca se potriveste? Pare identic Tidaka marimea L...

Oare te referi la asta? Sta fix in timpul rasnirii, dar tot ramane putina cafea electrizata pe margini inauntrul conului (nu am modulul anti retentie de la honne)

[Levo]

... Da , numai ca ... in cazul meu , manerul PF vine inclinat ( ... si nu perpendicular pe furca ) datorita pozitzionarii diferite a urechilor - si asta e valabil la ambele espressoare , ceea ce mareste instabilitatea ansamblului.
... Oricum , cred ca este si o chestie de obisnuintza ...

[baloozzy]

Cei cu reglajul cu melc, cum vi se așează pâlnia printată 3D, ați găsit ac de cojocul ei?

[palado]

Recomand inelul lui Kazak :
http://kazak.com.pl/en/product/trihter-5...gorlovina/
la mine se potrivește foarte bine !

[flipu2k]

Intrebare pentru cine rasneste direct in PF, folositi ceva tool-uri de distributie? Cum arata curgerea pe naked?

[Lyvyoo]

@dandefiel - da, la el ma refeream. Deci ideal ar fi unul ceva mai putin inalt...
@baloozzy  eu stiu ca s-a reproiectat suportul 3D pentru varianta noua pe melc, poate ne confirma / infirma cineva care si-a luat Honne in ultimul an.
@flipu2k - eu sunt destul de convins la ora aceasta ca orice rasnire single dose are nevoie de ceva "scarpinare" pentru a te asigura ca ai o distributie multumitoare a macinaturii in portafiltru. Vad si la EK si la Honne, e mult mai safe sa faci WDT cu o simpla teapa sau cu ceva mai avansat decat sa nu faci deloc. Daca ai o cafea prajita corect curgerile pot fi absolut bestiale (ex. cu o cafea Sloane)

[RaduCarutasu]

.....
@baloozzy  eu stiu ca s-a reproiectat suportul 3D pentru varianta noua pe melc, poate ne confirma / infirma cineva care si-a luat Honne in ultimul an.
...

Asa este, s-a reproiectat. 
Capacul cu palnie, pentru rasnita noua, cu reglajul pe melc, este mai mic fata de cel vechi si are deschiderea pentru boabe putin mai larga.

[baloozzy]

Mulțumesc de răspuns, se pare că eu o am pe cea veche. Am încercat cu bandă dublu adezivă, silicon, dar nu a rezistat. Bine că m-am abținut să-i dau șurub.

[RaduCarutasu]

Mulțumesc de răspuns, se pare că eu o am pe cea veche. Am încercat cu bandă dublu adezivă, silicon, dar nu a rezistat. Bine că m-am abținut să-i dau șurub.

Cu placere!

Greu de fixat capacul vechi la rasnita noua.
Diferenta intre diametrele interioare ale celor doua capace este de cca 6 mm (o masuratoare la ruleta, fara pretentia de a fi chiar pe cele doua diametre, ar fi cam 82 mm la cel nou vs 88 mm la cel vechi)

[flipu2k]

@flipu2k - eu sunt destul de convins la ora aceasta ca orice rasnire single dose are nevoie de ceva "scarpinare" pentru a te asigura ca ai o distributie multumitoare a macinaturii in portafiltru. Vad si la EK si la Honne, e mult mai safe sa faci WDT cu o simpla teapa sau cu ceva mai avansat decat sa nu faci deloc. Daca ai o cafea prajita corect curgerile pot fi absolut bestiale (ex. cu o cafea Sloane)

De-acord, sunt curios doar ce metode s-au dovedit mai bune pentru altii. De exemplu mie mi s-a parut insuficient WDT cu un ac simplu. Am demontat furca in prima saptamana dupa ce am cumparat Honne-le si rasnesc intr-un blind tumbler, dupa care ajut cu kribli.